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No Quarter exploits…

Since Trion is very keen to close and delete all threads that even remotely dare to expose or insult American guilds, I will make a post here and explain what’s going on.

Throughout the one and a half years since Rift was released there have been a number of game breaking exploits that some people used more then others. This is obviously mainly Trion’s fault for not foreseeing them, but the people that used them and didn’t report them are equally guilty.

When it comes to new raid bosses, sometimes stuff goes wrong during testing or patching or people just forget about things and some of the bosses can be exploited or “cheesed”. Depending on how much the exploit or cheese affects the fight, the devs can decide to change it or leave it as it is and accept defeat.

A prime example of accepting defeat is the fact that you can Rift Prison the Fire Elementals on Warboss Drak and not bother with DPS-ing them down or that you can suicide with the Burning Sacrifice and disable the soft enrage.

A recent example of an exploit that was just breaking the encounter and got fixed asap was the fact that you could reflect the damage from Dread Shot using the rogue barrier or the already famous Wrathful Flames. Apparently this exploit was working since forever and this is not the first time Trion forgets to make boss abilities impossible to reflect. If you think back, I’m sure Prince Hylas in Greenscale Blight will bring back some memories… and in case you can’t remember, you could reflect Fracture using Reflective Presence from Dominator, Glassy Reflection from Warden and so on.

I’m not dissing Trion, but since we are 5 years old or even younger we are told we have to learn from mistakes so we don’t repeat them. Just saying.

So what’s the exploit now ?

The exploit is latency. Trion completely forgot to factor in latency when they designed bosses and put their server side checks in place. We all seen it when Conquest first got introduced and everyone started to lag so 50% of the time you would keep your Conquest buffs after the game ended.

They somewhat fixed it now, but it can still happen if you make yourself lag enough at the end of a game. This opened the door to a lot more “brilliant ideas”. Apparently people began to stack every possible buff from every possible trinket, specc, weapon by making themselves lag while changing specc or swapping weapons.

If you want the proof to this you can download over 100 parses from No Quarter and check what buffs they have and which proccs… tanks with Sylvan Greatblade procc on and doing 600 HPS, rogues so overpowered that their auto attack does 11% of their entire damage, etc. The examples can go on forever, if you want to see it for yourself here are all the logs available for download: combat logs.

And buff stacking it’s not the only thing they did. Let’s not forget about the Synergy Crystals stacking and the double Powerstone as well. To make matters worse, no one in their guild had the ethics to go an report this bug to the devs and stress how important it is to be fixed. The entire guild abused this exploit since the start of Infernal Dawn. No offence, but that’s a long time, not sure why no one reported it.

QQ, but you exploited as well !

We did, but not in such stupid ways and our “exploiting” is completely different. First of all, no matter how good an exploit seems, we report it asap and to always stress the importance of having it fixed fast we provide screenshots, combat logs, videos and even demonstrate it to the devs, just to have it fixed.

When Inwar Darktide bugged like mad in Hammerknell, we had the recording of that kill sent to a dev asap along of the details of what happen and how it happen. But what did Maximation did when they found out about bugs on Grugonim and Inquisitor Garau ? Nothing. They used them and only admitted to them when someone made that QQ post about how bad Trion is. They even sold guides for Runeking Molinar in which they described how to exploit the Cursed Blows.

Another example is the Wrathful Flames. After the whole QQ about the exploit on Rusila Dreadblade they fixed her Dread Shot ability so that it can’t be reflected, but they forgot to inquire more about how was it even possible to reflect that much damage using an item that is supposed to be capped. So it was still possible to use the Wrathful Flames to reflect the Word of Incineration on Ituziel after he enraged. So we took the appropriated actions and followed up on the matter, sent to screenshots to prove our point and the next Hotfix added a hard cap on the damage that could be reflected, thus solving the Wrathful Flames drama forever.

We also knew about the 2 powerstone stacking but we never used it. We always stream our kills, our parses and breakdowns always get posted on the forum if someone asks for them, we don’t hide in a corner and pretend nothing is happening. Also we always try to execute fights as they were intended to be done and we try to find a way to do the mechanics properly and not come up with shitty cheeses. It might be me, but isn’t the point of progress to learn mechanics and defeat the boss by properly executing those mechanics, rather then having a rogue tank bugging every single one of them ? And on top of that also staking every single possible damage, healing and shield procc ?

Don’t you have any respect for the devs that bust their asses and work long hours to provide you with entertaining and all you do is try to find ways to ruin their fights ? I know for sure that if I was a dev and I would create a boss and try to make it fun and interesting and some random guild would just break everything I work so hard on and cheese it to death, I would be pissed. What you did right here was like taking a Rubix cube and smash it on the ground then assemble it back in the solved state and pretend you won.

I’m still waiting for a fair race.

I put my hopes in Storm Legion. I hope Trion will learn from their mistakes and we will get a better race in the expansion. Although it unlikely because of all new souls and souls combinations, there will probably be something to exploit, at least I hope they will be quick to act on it and also they will implement some punishment for exploiting/cheating. At the moment everything is allowed, no one gets banned for using the fishing scripts, no one gets a wrist slap if they are exploiting, everything is forgotten 2 days after being said on the forum and the people that dare to point any obvious exploit get banned on the forums.

Fix it, ban them, set an example. Grow some balls.

As for NQ, all I can say is GG guys, no one will take you serious again. I hope you get banned from testing at least, you don’t deserve to test if you are unable to report live bugs, how are you going to help out in Beta ? By storing up some exploits so you can use the at release ? Shameful.

Contribute and help improve Rift.

If you found or heard about an exploit or a bug that is being abused don’t think that there is nothing you can do about it. You can help expose it and have it fixed. The way to do it is to post it on the forum and make a fuss about it, make it known to everyone. Don’t use the Feedback / Bug reports feature in-game, no one listens to that thing. Just make sure it is on the forum and it is visible to a lot of people. Then they will have to fix it asap.

PS: Special thanks to Paul for the gallery image. He is by far the funniest guy on the forums :)

Update: Since some people are to patriotic, I’m just going to remove any attempt of being sarcastic. Here it is without any reference to your beloved US.

 
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48 Comments  comments 

48 Responses

  1. n0s

    Ethics? From Americans??

    Now you’re just being silly…

  2. Bohr

    The pursuit of exploits for individual player DPS is certainly ont he shoulders of maximation/NQ. But to extend this to an american thing seems a little steep. We’re not sure how far the exploiting went in addiction (they kicked shaeyl for it) but voodoo/trinity didn’t exploit.

    And you are being a little generous on the “SO does things as intended” statement. You ignored adds on maelforge P1 to get a first kill, you didn’t solve beams on mak for first few kills, you suicided drak bubbles to get a kill (for some time), you didn’t kite ituziel to get a kill, you don’t do mak orbs correctly in hard mode to get a kill (although to your credit you were one of the few that did it correctly in non-hard mode). All of those things are contrary to the intentions.

    I certainly wouldn’t say that SO is an exploit guild and we all know that you turn the hair dryer on the devs for their lack of effort as far as fixing exploits and bosses go which is a good thing. But I would say that SO pursues highly efficient kill strats rather than the intended mechanics at all times.

  3. admin

    K, I take it back, I remember Heresy came up with the logging out on Maklamos to avoid the beams, EU gets 5% credit :)

  4. DaBearz

    Theres a big difference between “interesting use of mechanics” and exploiting.

  5. Beyondz

    EU gets equal credit. The first guilds to have people use the exact exploits NQ used were EURO, particularly Addiction. Now while they did do house cleaning to try and prevent that and i commend them for taking such steps, the point is… its certainly not “always the Americans”. Both Euro and US guilds are at equal fault for the exploiting. The fact that you would place blame on the Americans shoulders is just pathetic. I am a Euro player myself and find that despicable.

    I would also like to point out that NQ doesnt represent Americans, and several other American guilds such as Voodoo or Trinity did not cheat, and in fact Trinity actually makes their parses public on their site. I took a look myself at their First Laethy’s kill parse.

  6. admin

    Addiction is US as well btw. I’m not saying all the US guilds are being bad, I’m saying is the US guilds that come up with this stuff and not report it when there is something to report. Most of the top guilds have a direct line to the devs and those that don’t have the forum.

  7. Calmethar

    Bohr nailed it.

    No reason to make it an EU vs. US thing WL :/

  8. admin

    Don’t take it so personal, as Skarjj would say: Cheer up ! It just a rhetorical question :)
    It’s not US vs EU, it’s just pointing out the derping that’s going on at the moment and slapping Trion for not taking action.
    And in the same way you always notice that warrior that keeps dying in your raid (even though he doesn’t die every single time) and make an example out of him when you’re talking about what not to do in a raid, it’s the same thing when it comes to this. The biggest exploiting and bug abusing drama seems to come from the US (even if it’s only 90% true).
    And knowing about stacking buffs for 2 months and not saying one word to anyone is just pure BS. If you can make up an excuse for kitting Grugonim or losing Garau, there is no excuse for this.

  9. DaBearz

    This exploit has been in use since HK days and to say Voodoo is free of these accusations is just being dumb.

    Addiction’s exploiter was pretty much executed on the forums and than banished from the guild, NQ on the otherhand promoted the exploit throughout the whole raid, and then cried for boss fixes and bragged on “World Firsts”

    The manner in which the exploit was handled by the guild is what is of major concern, more so than the exploit itself.

  10. Tml

    Heh, I remember going through a thread regarding Sheayl’s (sp?) DPS and Vioarr defending the guy fearlessly having no clue about mages. Oh well, at least they kicked the player.

    I guess that’s the reason NQ members are forbidden to stream lol. It’s a joke really.

    Gratz on World First Maelforge SO!

  11. Cookie

    Half of the ‘exploits’ mentioned are finding a strat to actually down a boss, the beams on maklamos could not be solved when he was released. The adds on maelforge had no penalty to leaving them alive, the orbs in hardmode maklamos can not be dealt with using our strat on normal mode.

    The fact that NQ can just sit there and blatantly exploit a world first kill using a exploit which allows them to gain more dps than what is actually possible and then they are proud of it posting this on there forums. http://nqguild.enjin.com/ Pretty sad if you ask me.

  12. DaBearz

    ^exactly, using every strat conceivable during progression is what makes it progression, you test things, see what works, see what doesn’t. Happen to find a bug? or a little trick around them, i’ll call that an “interesting use of mechanics.”
    However, stacking dozens of items and procs is just a blatant exploit. Its not a buggy mechanic, or a buggy enviroment/boss room, its flat out cheating.

  13. Tml

    The second the news were published they’ve become irrelevant in my eyes. Couldn’t care less about their ID Conq. or anything. That’s how the community should treat them from now on.

  14. Artho

    * Fixed odd camera behavior while your character is polymorphed and on non-level terrain.
    * Added safeguards against equipment procs remaining active even though the source item was unequipped.

    Even though they cheated on the world first the bug was fixed awhile ago and they’ve proven that their still a top guild.

  15. Hey guys,

    I’m the Director of Community at Trion Worlds and I wanted to let you know that we are already aware of this situation and we have a team working on it. I’ll update you guys when I have more information – if you want to ask me any questions specifically, my twitter handle is @dahanese as well (and if I don’t know the answer I will find someone who does.)

    Thanks.

  16. admin

    @Artho
    I’m done with them, so is most of the community now. They can say whatever they want about us being mad or w/e. They might as well disband, transfer and rename their chars and guild, it’s done now.
    This goes beyond kitting Grugonim or cheesing the Desolation, this is about an entire guild out of which no one had the ethics to report such a crap bug.
    And for your information, even though it says fixed in the patch notes, it’s not fixed.

  17. Anon

    Well, for one, it is fixed, at least to our knowledge. Secondly, we did report the bug, and most of the people in the guild were completely against it and had reported it and talked to Adam about it.
    Finally, as Artho said, with, or without it, we have proven that we are still a top guild.

  18. SOStacks

    We also knew about the 2 powerstone stacking but we never used it.

    -Quote taken from original post

    Yep sure ;)

  19. DaBearz

    what are you basing this “still a top guild” on? you only got to see those bosses via exploits, if you had not initially exploited you would be stuck at 5/8 like the dozens of other guilds that are out there. The extent to which you guys exploited ( proof in the parses ) voids any “skill” you may claim to have. If you had 1 or 2 “secret” exploiters sure than there is probably enough skill in your raid to be a top guild. but when you have a dozen people, stacking a dozen items there is no skill in that. and TBH is shows how bad you really are considering it took that much to keep up with Addiction/SO

  20. admin

    We never used it. Doesn’t matter if you believe us or not, I know we have a clear record on that one. I didn’t post this to show how angel like we are.
    I don’t care about the forum drama, I don’t care about e-peening on World Firsts, I don’t care about top dps, but I do care about general common sense. And stacking every single procc you could find on your entire raid is just plain BS. To be honest you would have been better stacking 16 powerstones.
    You didn’t piss off people cause you got World First, you didn’t piss off people because you got world first using exploits, you piss off people because this is just premeditated murder and you went to such and extent to exploit.
    Zero respect for NQ from now on. One big 0.

  21. Artho

    They killed it one time before it got fixed bearz that wouldnt magically give them the skills to kill it again.

  22. admin

    I have my doubts they would have killed Laethys as fast as they did without everyone in the raid doing 600 or more HPS, including the tanks and having all the possible absorbs buffs stacked. I didn’t checked all the logs that were posted and I can’t tell how many times they killed her using this stuff, but as I said, I got some doubts.

  23. DaBearz

    According to Ahovv they did NOT kill Laethys for 3 weeks after fix and than another week for Maelforge. Meaning it took a month of Relic upgrades and Conquest perks for their “skill” to be on par to kill it again.

  24. Ahov

    Yeah, all references to it have been deleted from the Rift forums. NQ did not kill Laethys for 2-3 weeks after the exploit was removed, nor Maelforge for four weeks.

  25. Artho

    “According to Ahovv”

  26. DaBearz

    All his other claims are backed up by parses and log informations, and have no reason to not trust him, where as you offer nothing of the sort and are merely pointing fingers at others to try and downplay your guys terrible judgement and complete lack of respect not only for yourselves but for the raiding community and the game as a whole.

    Simply show a SS of all the relics you have gotten. Find a Clip from SO’s stream that has an exploit. Do something, if there is anything you can do, to show your “Skill” or your innocence to these claims. I’d love to watch of stream of you guys attempting Laethys tonight.

  27. Anon

    Why are you deleting my posts? I simply made a statement saying that SO has backed themselves into a corner with contradictions and then a simple question about what streaming a raid would do. It’s a legitimate question and what I said above is a legitimate observation.

  28. Cookie

    You got no idea of what’s going on, just stop posting and making yourself look even worse then you already do.

  29. Raffter

    They see me lurking!! exploiting!!! oh wait need to join NoQuarter first.

  30. admin

    There is nothing to discuss here about SO vs NQ. There is nothing SO did that would compare to that stacking BS.
    So like Trion would say, stay on topic ^^. Unless you have some explanation to why NQ did what they did, it doesn’t belong here. Proving or disproving anything about SO is not on topic.

  31. Jennahaze

    Cookie is the best mage EU and doesnt exploit

  32. Sharogy

    Anon, it is interesting how u claim everyone is Against it in NQ, yet it is clear how NQ cleared Laethys and onwards through heavily exploited buff stacking and claim world first, when ppl asked for parse/video of those kills, NQ were like, no we dont run parses, we dont record them. Good thing when backtracked to RR’s pov maelforge wf kill video everyone can CLEARLY see u killed Maelforge wf by exploiting those things i mentioned. so what is it that u are trying to say? pretty big contradiction dont u think?

    some even claim all of those exploiters are no longer in NQ, yet i see some of them all the time in ur raids.

    Till the day comes when u can pinpoint ANY BUFF/Equipment Stacking in over 100 hour of raid footage we have recorded throughout progression from multiple POV’s, u have 0 rights to ever suggest SO might have exploited just the same. when i can pick out over 5 moment where it clearly shows what u were doing in just 1 kill video.

  33. admin

    I only let Anon’s comments go because I wanna see DaBearz have a go at him. It’s really funny to see that the only thing that NQ can come up with is “You mad? or You bad”. I got your logs bros and everyone can see them now.

    And as I said, you had been better off stacking 10 Powerstones then what you did. I’m not contesting your World Firsts because I don’t care, I’m contesting your ethics and that’s what I’m really pissed about.

    I don’t spend my time trolling on the forums or making stupid signatures to insult other guilds. I rarely state my own opinions and on this blog I only focus on making guides or loot tables. I only stated my opinion on 2 things: ID gating and this, because both topics annoyed me. I didn’t said anything about losing World Firsts, I didn’t said anything about any other guild before except for my “Gwuardian” guild that I love <3 and that’s it. So before you have a go at me or before you emo-rage in your Rift forum style please read bellow.

    I am not very fond of people that have an IQ under 80, so if you want your comments to be approved you have to:
    a) Understand that this post is not an attack to the US and stop being patriotic and stupid.
    b) Realize that I didn’t post this to prove how bad NQ is and how cool SO is, I posted it to show the Rift community what kind of BS happens inside NQ and how ethical NQ players are, because if you dare to name and shame on the Rift forums you get banned.
    c) This post is not here to show SO has angel wings so don’t come with “But Cookie stole my eraser in 2nd grade so you’re a bad bad guild”. Pictures or it didn’t happen.

    Thank you for your time :)

  34. Okay since this seems to be where the bulk of the discussion has moved to, I’ll address this here. I am one of the raid/guild leaders of No Quarter. I’m not going to deny anything at this point since you have Ahov’s logs and there’s no point in arguing over it anymore.

    The powerstone exploit came to our (the leadership and the bulk of our members) attention shortly after we began working on Laethys. One of our members was having a discussion with some of his friends in Breaking Bads one day and learned of said exploit. Ahov confirmed this bug and we as a guild figured out how it worked. Upon doing so we used our American ingenuity to further figure out how exactly it worked and the extent it could go. Needless to say the things you where able to do with this where endless.

    Many of our members and leadership(including myself) bug reported this in great detail to Trion, as well as contacting Hartsman via email and FoH forums explaining the bug, how we did it, and the extent in how broken it was.
    After learning how long the bug had been in the game (basically since launch) we figured it was “working as intended,” and gave the go ahead to use said bug to mitigate some of the dps requirements on fights. However we encouraged our members to ‘restrain’ themselves during progression. After words… not so much.

    Frankly this is something that I’m glad Trion finally fixed because we had several individuals who where able to hide behind this bug for quite some time.

    Over the course of my MMO carrier starting back when EQ launched I have seen and been in many guilds that have taken advantage of bugs in games and used them to progress. This isn’t anything new nor is it anything that’s going to go away. There will always be guilds that will find new and industrious ways to bend or break game mechanics. Frankly the use of this bug was widely know and widely used. I can name off several guilds that had members who used this bug to some extent or another. Nor would I be surprised (not making accusations) if there was one or two individuals in SO that took advantage of this. I don’t blame them one bit for using it nor will I scoff at them for it. If a guild/player is resourceful enough to take advantage of such things, that’s all a part of the game.

    You question our ethics? That’s fine, please do. None of use are going to apologize for anything we do. Nor do we feel like we need to justify anything, least of all to any of you. We did what we did to get ahead because it was a resource available to us to use. We did the responsible thing and reported it to Trion so they could fix it, and proceeded to use it. We allowed our members to make their own choice on the matter and left it at that. With in our guild we fully disclosed the bug to our members, as well as members who joined during that time frame. We’ve also been open about it with members that have joined since then and every member in our guild knew about this long before anything was brought up on the forums. This hasn’t deterred any players from playing or caused any members to leave or criticize us for doing so.

    You question us for not streaming or releasing parses. That’s your prerogative. The bug in no way influenced this decision, it’s a policy we’ve had since formation and it’s one we’ve kept even after the bug was fixed (and it is fixed because we’ve tested it extensively). We’re not here to be buddy buddy with the Rift community or to be popular (even if it may seem so)or to win your approval. What goes on in No Quarter raids is No Quarter’s business. Our raids consist of a lot of yelling, racial slurs and expletives. Our raids are high strung and intense and we expect our members to play to the best of their ability. We have no interest in sharing strat’s or helping other guilds progress or being the model of openness that Special Olympics is. We are a small group of people looking to raid progression content and play this game how we like. As long as our members show up for raid, do their jobs and keep and guilds issues with in the guild; I frankly don’t care what they do on the forums or how they interact with other players with in the game. I’m probably one of the biggest dick heads aside from Ahov you’ll meet in this game, and I wear it as a badge of honor, as do many of our other members (hence the excessive trolling on the forums).

    With all this being said, feel free to scoff and criticize us. We frankly don’t care. We’ll continue to troll SO and any other guild we feel like because that’s who we are.
    All of us in No Quarter have had a great many laughs over the last few days at Ahov’s expense. This whole incident stemmed from him trying to get back in our guild knowing full well that he wasn’t going to get back in. It’s a vain and petty attempt to try and break up our guild. If anything it’s bonded us closer together. Frankly I find it funny that he tried to portray himself taking the “moral high ground” when he’s one of the people who introduced it to us in the first place and himself used it in raids.

    I hope this clarifies some things for you. If your still angry at this point, you might as well get over it, because we don’t care and many of our members are intentionally stirring the pot to piss you off.

    So, to all the members of Special Olympics, It was a good run in Infernal Dawn battling for world firsts. You where a worthy foe and I look forward to battling with you folks again in Storm Legion.

    If you have any further questions or would like to discuss things further, feel free to contact me in game Myrkel@gnarlwood or on our website nqguild.enjin.com.

    With that I bid you all a good day.

    -Myrkel

  35. DaBearz

    I hope each and every one of your exploiters is banned, and those lucky enough to not have been exploiting be rolled back, having items and achievements removed. It is astonishing how lax Trion’s policy is on these types of things.

    As far as NQ as a whole, you guys have a terrible leadership, with terrible policies and a terrible approach to gaming in general.

    “After learning how long the bug had been in the game (basically since launch) we figured it was “working as intended,” and gave the go ahead to use said bug to mitigate some of the dps requirements on fights. However we encouraged our members to ‘restrain’ themselves during progression. After words… not so much.”

    ^^ Wow. Just Wow.

  36. Vioarr

    Had we been aware of this as a guild we would have reported it. Shaeyl learned of this from outside of the guild and not bring it to our attention. We are in good standing with Trion specifically for our history of reporting bugs we learn about either by experience or hearsay when other guilds try to hide them. SO can say the same, not many others can. That is the source of our outrage, not the “you mad bro” people have been throwing around. We try to make this game better and we take issue with guilds that work against us and are responsible for actions that damage the game. Past that, Trion’s dungeon devs are the best I’ve ever worked with in this genre and it irks me when people potentially harm their professional reputation or damage their standing with their employer because they are too ignorant to see that this “it’s just a game” shit is shortsighted. So, I say **** you NQ you ignorant little selfish ****.

  37. Calmethar

    “I’m not going to deny anything at this point since you have Ahov’s logs and there’s no point in arguing over it anymore.”

    So you would’ve argued over it and denied it had it not been for the logs? With your standpoint, why ‘o’ why?

    When you do post World First kills to brag, why not admit to using the exploits straight away then, and openly state that you’ve reported it, instead of leaving it to be revealed by others later on. Does look kinda silly :/

  38. Bohr

    “Many of our members and leadership(including myself) bug reported this in great detail to Trion, as well as contacting Hartsman via email and FoH forums explaining the bug, how we did it, and the extent in how broken it was.”

    Evidence?

    “After learning how long the bug had been in the game (basically since launch) we figured it was “working as intended,” and gave the go ahead to use said bug to mitigate some of the dps requirements on fights.”

    70k p1 Laethys with 5 exploiting DPS doing crazy auto attack damage and healers throwing 5k+ dols on warrior tanks is hardly mitigating “some” of the dps requirements =)

    “However we encouraged our members to ‘restrain’ themselves during progression. After words… not so much.”

    13 – 16 people using the exploits is not much restraint.

    “Frankly this is something that I’m glad Trion finally fixed because we had several individuals who where able to hide behind this bug for quite some time.”

    I’m sure all that exploiting was quite a stress on the raid as you were able to overheal everything and still top DPS. And not killing a boss for 3 weeks without exploits doesn’t sound like something that makes one glad.

    “This isn’t anything new nor is it anything that’s going to go away.”

    Of course it’s not if YOU do it. Be the change you want to see in the world…and it will go away.

    “There will always be guilds that will find new and industrious ways to bend or break game mechanics.”

    That’s less true than you make it out to be and this isn’t about exploiting in general, this is about NQ exploiting to WF and then failing for a month on the same mob but feeling absolutely no guilt about it.

    “Frankly the use of this bug was widely know and widely used. I can name off several guilds that had members who used this bug to some extent or another.”

    Please do…and show me the logs. Innocent until proven guilty.

    “If a guild/player is resourceful enough to take advantage of such things, that’s all a part of the game.”

    So doping in sports is okay?

    “None of use are going to apologize for anything we do.”

    We know that already

    “We allowed our members to make their own choice on the matter and left it at that.”

    Fail leadership is fail. Responsibility is hard though…I get it.

    “With in our guild we fully disclosed the bug to our members, as well as members who joined during that time frame. We’ve also been open about it with members that have joined since then and every member in our guild knew about this long before anything was brought up on the forums.”

    That’s called condoning and encouraging the use.

    “The bug in no way influenced this decision, it’s a policy we’ve had since formation and it’s one we’ve kept even after the bug was fixed (and it is fixed because we’ve tested it extensively).”

    So you draw a hard line on streaming and spend a lot of time enforcing it but the whole game breaking and progression invalidating exploits you just let go for whoever to do whatever? Priority fail?

    “We’re not here to be buddy buddy with the Rift community or to be popular (even if it may seem so)or to win your approval.”

    Caring about a community that you are a part of is so lame. I’m glad someone has the courage to be blindly selfish and not contribute in any positive way to a community of other human beings.

    “Our raids are high strung and intense and we expect our members to play to the best of their ability.”

    How is it so intense when 3/4 the DPS is doing 30 – 100% more than they should be doing? That’s like saying Duke is an intense encounter for an ID guild.

    “We have no interest in sharing strat’s or helping other guilds progress or being the model of openness that Special Olympics is.”

    The strat is pretty one dimensional. Exploit game, roll face on keyboard and ignore mechanics. Rinse, repeat.

    “I’m probably one of the biggest dick heads aside from Ahov you’ll meet in this game, and I wear it as a badge of honor, as do many of our other members (hence the excessive trolling on the forums).”

    Do they give Olympic medals for that?

    “I hope this clarifies some things for you. If your still angry at this point, you might as well get over it, because we don’t care and many of our members are intentionally stirring the pot to piss you off.”

    Stay classy.

    “If you have any further questions or would like to discuss things further, feel free to contact me in game Myrkel@gnarlwood or on our website nqguild.enjin.com.”

    I have a few questions regarding the methods with which one is able to sleep at night but it’s w/e…I’ll just speculate =)

    “With that I bid you all a good day.”

    And I wish you luck in copious amounts that karma does not descend upon like fiery judgement from above.

  39. Anon

    “I’m sure all that exploiting was quite a stress on the raid as you were able to overheal everything and still top DPS. And not killing a boss for 3 weeks without exploits doesn’t sound like something that makes one glad.”

    I was very glad when they fixed it, we got to remove lots of bad guild members and I was personally against using the method at all. I would much prefer not killing a boss for a few weeks than exploiting it. So with that: it’s true, we didn’t kill Maelforge for three weeks after this was fixed, and as I stated earlier, it was due to 10+ members leaving the guild. SO also did not kill them until we did a second time. Did their dps and healing magically disappear, or did they lose half their roster as well? Such a simple question, why can’t I ever get a simple answer? I have given you mine.

  40. admin

    If you really want to know, we killed it first week, then we moved to Lagwatch, I mean Icewatch where it was not even possible to kill Laethys, let alone Maelforge. Then our only tank decided to quit the game and at the same time Maelforge 2.0 got introduced, which was impossible to kill. Once we moved off Icewatch and the adds were fixed and they had a normal amount of HP we killed it every time.
    But it’s ok, Trion took action and they checked the logs. Logs don’t lie. Here is the proof: http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/dungeons-raids/328986-maelforge-world-first.html

  41. Here since you asked about us reporting. http://i.imgur.com/XnKis.jpg

  42. Sharogy

    @anon, http://forums.riftgame.com/shard-forums/eu-shards/pve/icewatch/322187-server-first-issues.html

    we killed laethys right after the exploit was fixed as u can read in that thread, can u say the same?
    maelforge was buffed through p1 changes, so nobody could kill it at that point till fix happend. which conquest came at the same patch made it impossible for us to raid on ice watch at that point, feel free to read it here also:

    http://forums.riftgame.com/shard-forums/eu-shards/pve/icewatch/321846-fix-icewatch-raid-lag-its-joke.html

    The 2nd time we killed it was when we moved to blightweld obv.

  43. Skarrj

    Still Myrkel, you could have choosen not to use the exploit & not lie about it. You could keep nagging them and in worst case scenario, post it on the forums and they must fix it asap. The way you didn’t tell any others, lied why you didn’t have parses and RR not allowed to stream was silly.

    I think all was aware of the exploit, just some choose touse it as you see now :)

  44. Calmethar

    Bohr pretty much nailed it again.

    And Myrkel, condoning exploiting can never really be justified in any way, shape or form. It’s just sad for the whole game and community.

  45. RoughRaptors

    Skarrj, I locked my stream specifically because they did not want to show how to do the Maelforge achievement as we had figured out how to make it work 100% of the time. As for previously not streaming before, this was all way after the fixes and they just told me not to stream anymore. I don’t know why and I just accepted it and stopped. I don’t know which you are referring to though, when it was private for new members to learn the fight or when I stopped altogether. NQ wanted to remain private so I respected their decision in that.

  46. Calmethar

    What’s the point, RR.

    Give it a rest :/

  47. Zyanya

    The article was very insightful until the author took the unfortunate step and turned it into bashing a single group. Like most honest people, I too detest cheaters and people who pretend cheating is an acceptable means of winning. However, most people know who the cheaters are in a game and it’s up to honest people to avoid cheaters, at all costs. Since it is Trion’s game, I will not second guess Trion’s reasoning for refusing to ban cheaters. However, I will always make certain to never be a cheater. After all, a person is only responsible for their own behaviour. As for the people who have the small world vision that it’s only the Americans who cheat, I highly suggest, they get out more and perhaps explore the real world. Cheating isn’t based on nationality it spawns from a lack of character and even less integrity. People who fail to understand that it’s personal character and integrity that keeps a person from cheating seem to be lacking, at some level, in both.

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